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	<title>Comments on: How funny money will keep this rally going, and why M2 tells us how it will end</title>
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	<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/</link>
	<description>Precise Market Timing for the eMini S&#38;P 500</description>
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		<title>By: Precisioncapmgt</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1329</link>
		<dc:creator>Precisioncapmgt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 02:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-1329</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Precisioncapmgt...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...] something about precisioncapmgt[...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Precisioncapmgt&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...] something about precisioncapmgt[...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Non-Borrowed Excess Reserve and the US Stock Markets &#171; U.Pro.Fish</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Non-Borrowed Excess Reserve and the US Stock Markets &#171; U.Pro.Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 10:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-203</guid>
		<description>[...] This article says the increase in NBER is important, because as banks do not have to pay back NBER to the Fed, banks can freely lend this money, and banks lent this to hedge funds and prop desks to speculate on stock market.  (I guess this type of lending was not reflected in increase of M2 because it was not deposited back?  Does this make any sense?  Your teaching appreciated.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This article says the increase in NBER is important, because as banks do not have to pay back NBER to the Fed, banks can freely lend this money, and banks lent this to hedge funds and prop desks to speculate on stock market.  (I guess this type of lending was not reflected in increase of M2 because it was not deposited back?  Does this make any sense?  Your teaching appreciated.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fix your credit free</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>fix your credit free</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-83</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;fix your credit free...&lt;/strong&gt;

Wow - nice blog.  I like it alot!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>fix your credit free&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Wow &#8211; nice blog.  I like it alot!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jcvyhhlr</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>jcvyhhlr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-82</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;jcvyhhlr...&lt;/strong&gt;

jcvyhhlr...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>jcvyhhlr&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>jcvyhhlr&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: urbxzwbq</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>urbxzwbq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-67</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;urbxzwbq...&lt;/strong&gt;

urbxzwbq...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>urbxzwbq&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>urbxzwbq&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: It’s October 1, S&#38;P down 20 pts, you’re Chairman of the Fed. What do you do? &#124; Froogalizer.com</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>It’s October 1, S&#38;P down 20 pts, you’re Chairman of the Fed. What do you do? &#124; Froogalizer.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-65</guid>
		<description>[...] SFP wind-down&#8211;$35 billion&#8211;check.&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] SFP wind-down&ndash;$35 billion&ndash;check.&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Money Markets are the New Suspenders &#124; Wall St. Cheat Sheet</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Money Markets are the New Suspenders &#124; Wall St. Cheat Sheet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-64</guid>
		<description>[...] 2010, especially with the help of another $634834 billion in MBS and Agency POMO into next March (not to mention the possible Treasury SFP wind-down effect to the tune of $114 to 185 billion).  The Fed must be perfect, however, as any new panic will [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2010, especially with the help of another $634834 billion in MBS and Agency POMO into next March (not to mention the possible Treasury SFP wind-down effect to the tune of $114 to 185 billion).  The Fed must be perfect, however, as any new panic will [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The future of liquidity injections &#124; The Precision Report</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>The future of liquidity injections &#124; The Precision Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-53</guid>
		<description>[...] we wrote last week, the wind down of Treasury&#8217;s Supplementary Financing Program (SFP) begins today, with $35 B in the program not being rolled over, $24.3 B of which was initially [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we wrote last week, the wind down of Treasury&#8217;s Supplementary Financing Program (SFP) begins today, with $35 B in the program not being rolled over, $24.3 B of which was initially [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Can Money Supply Tell Us How the Funny Money Rally Will End? &#124; Wall St. Cheat Sheet</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Can Money Supply Tell Us How the Funny Money Rally Will End? &#124; Wall St. Cheat Sheet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-51</guid>
		<description>[...] This is a guest post by Precision Capital Management. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is a guest post by Precision Capital Management. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob English</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob English</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-50</guid>
		<description>@antiphos:  It&#039;s probably the case that the primary dealers don&#039;t hold all the bills for the entire duration.  I don&#039;t know how much they hold and don&#039;t have the ability to find out.  What I do know is the incredible correlation between POMO and equity ramps.  Look at the chart of POMO days vs. non-POMO days in the first 3 months of the 2009 rally in our G.U.T. post under &quot;Articles&quot;.  Expiration of SFP is not a permanent Fed operation, but closely mimics the mechanics of it.  Instead of buying Treasuries, they&#039;re allowed to expire.  Then, large amounts of money are (likely) hitting primary dealer accounts.  To me, future equity ramps as a result are not only possible, but likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@antiphos:  It&#8217;s probably the case that the primary dealers don&#8217;t hold all the bills for the entire duration.  I don&#8217;t know how much they hold and don&#8217;t have the ability to find out.  What I do know is the incredible correlation between POMO and equity ramps.  Look at the chart of POMO days vs. non-POMO days in the first 3 months of the 2009 rally in our G.U.T. post under &#8220;Articles&#8221;.  Expiration of SFP is not a permanent Fed operation, but closely mimics the mechanics of it.  Instead of buying Treasuries, they&#8217;re allowed to expire.  Then, large amounts of money are (likely) hitting primary dealer accounts.  To me, future equity ramps as a result are not only possible, but likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob English</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob English</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-49</guid>
		<description>@dbarret:  Not sure if I understand your questions correctly, but you might be conflating the SFP phenomenon with the quantitative easing/POMO phenomenon.  In the latter, the Fed is purchasing securities.  In the former (SFP), there are two main things going on:

1.  The money tied up in Treasuries by primary dealers to the tune of 114.1 B will be returned and may be leveraged by them to pump equities.  They may have sold some or all of it--we don&#039;t know how much.  It could also be that 100% of it will simply be rolled into buying new Treasuries at the regular auctions instead of pumping equities.  But I doubt it.  Out of a total return of $185 B, I would be very surprised if a substantial portion did not show up in the markets.

2.  If the Fed wants to keep its lending operations at the same level, it will need to increase the monetary base.  

However, in the second case, it will be contributing to borrowed bank excess reserves, which we have not necessarily found to be correlated with equity ramps.  Rather the permanent operations (separate from SFP--e.g. POMO) go into bank non-borrowed excess reserves, which is correlated to equity ramps.  So 1, above instead of 2 will likely be the driving factor for equities.

On your second question, the SFP account at the Fed has only been used for lending, not permanent purchases.  Had the Fed printed the money for its lending out to financial institutions (as opposed to using the SFP), it would have gone into the monetary base and could have been leveraged.  Though this was a legitimage fear at the time, it was a non-starter because, as we found out later, banks did not lend with money that was lent to them by the Fed (at least in a way that would show up in the stock market).  Again, it&#039;s the permanent Fed purchases that matter, and the return of the SFP funds is a permanent action that is very similar to QE/POMO, which is shown to be correlated to equities ramps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@dbarret:  Not sure if I understand your questions correctly, but you might be conflating the SFP phenomenon with the quantitative easing/POMO phenomenon.  In the latter, the Fed is purchasing securities.  In the former (SFP), there are two main things going on:</p>
<p>1.  The money tied up in Treasuries by primary dealers to the tune of 114.1 B will be returned and may be leveraged by them to pump equities.  They may have sold some or all of it&#8211;we don&#8217;t know how much.  It could also be that 100% of it will simply be rolled into buying new Treasuries at the regular auctions instead of pumping equities.  But I doubt it.  Out of a total return of $185 B, I would be very surprised if a substantial portion did not show up in the markets.</p>
<p>2.  If the Fed wants to keep its lending operations at the same level, it will need to increase the monetary base.  </p>
<p>However, in the second case, it will be contributing to borrowed bank excess reserves, which we have not necessarily found to be correlated with equity ramps.  Rather the permanent operations (separate from SFP&#8211;e.g. POMO) go into bank non-borrowed excess reserves, which is correlated to equity ramps.  So 1, above instead of 2 will likely be the driving factor for equities.</p>
<p>On your second question, the SFP account at the Fed has only been used for lending, not permanent purchases.  Had the Fed printed the money for its lending out to financial institutions (as opposed to using the SFP), it would have gone into the monetary base and could have been leveraged.  Though this was a legitimage fear at the time, it was a non-starter because, as we found out later, banks did not lend with money that was lent to them by the Fed (at least in a way that would show up in the stock market).  Again, it&#8217;s the permanent Fed purchases that matter, and the return of the SFP funds is a permanent action that is very similar to QE/POMO, which is shown to be correlated to equities ramps.</p>
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		<title>By: dbarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>dbarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the detailed explanation. However, perhaps some other readers are having some of the same questions that I after having read your explanation. 

It seems like the liquidity that this money in the Feds SFP account was drained from the money supply last year and is now being re-injected as the Fed uses this money to purchase securities. Is that correct? 

Why can&#039;t the banks who receive money by selling securities to the Fed today (with the Fed using money in the special SFP account to buy them) loan it out and use leverage of 10:1? You indicated that if the Fed had printed the money they could use leverage on these excess reserves but they could NOT do it if the money came from the SFP account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the detailed explanation. However, perhaps some other readers are having some of the same questions that I after having read your explanation. </p>
<p>It seems like the liquidity that this money in the Feds SFP account was drained from the money supply last year and is now being re-injected as the Fed uses this money to purchase securities. Is that correct? </p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t the banks who receive money by selling securities to the Fed today (with the Fed using money in the special SFP account to buy them) loan it out and use leverage of 10:1? You indicated that if the Fed had printed the money they could use leverage on these excess reserves but they could NOT do it if the money came from the SFP account.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention How funny money will keep this rally going, and why M2 tells us how it will end &#124; The Precision Report -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention How funny money will keep this rally going, and why M2 tells us how it will end &#124; The Precision Report -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-41</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeremy Veum. Jeremy Veum said: http://tinyurl.com/lerqmy &quot;How funny money will keep this rally going, and why M2 tells us how it will end. $$ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeremy Veum. Jeremy Veum said: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/lerqmy" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/lerqmy</a> &quot;How funny money will keep this rally going, and why M2 tells us how it will end. $$ [...]</p>
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		<title>By: antiphos</title>
		<link>http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/2009/09/18/how-funny-money-will-keep-this-rally-going-and-why-m2-tells-us-how-it-will-end/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>antiphos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.precisioncapmgt.com/?p=1149#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Tyler at Zero Hedge repeated your argument here and a poster responded with this comment. I would be interested to hear your take on it.
_________________________________________________
There is a bit of a flaw in your analysis.

You state that the bills will mature without the requirement that the primary dealers will roll those bills at maturity.

You then posit that the primary dealers will use those funds to gun the equity market.

That is a nice fairy tale but makes no sense.

First of all it is quite unlikely that the primary dealer community would hold that bill for 70 days. They own the bill at a yield of 0.185 basis points.

For the sake of simplicity let us assume that they are able to finance them at percent. They make 18.5 basis point per day on their holding.

That would not be an efficient use of scarce capital in an era when balance sheet space is scarce.

In an environment in which the FOMC has promised cheap financing for an extended period, balance sheet would be allocated to buying the 2 year note (or some other instrument with a longer maturity) when it sags some place north of 1.00 percent. There is at least a little juice in that trade.

Foreign central banks and money funds buy piles of bills. I would bet my money that the bills were quickly distributed to those investors.

Separately, a dealer is not going to hold a security for 70 days.

Furthermore, in the auction of the bill which matures this week the primary dealers took just $ 24.3 billion so even if your far out assumption is correct, then the amount of leverage employed would drop rather quickly from the fanciful number which you cite.

Primary dealers are traders and as a general rule it is anathema to hold a liquid for the 70 days which the post suggests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler at Zero Hedge repeated your argument here and a poster responded with this comment. I would be interested to hear your take on it.<br />
_________________________________________________<br />
There is a bit of a flaw in your analysis.</p>
<p>You state that the bills will mature without the requirement that the primary dealers will roll those bills at maturity.</p>
<p>You then posit that the primary dealers will use those funds to gun the equity market.</p>
<p>That is a nice fairy tale but makes no sense.</p>
<p>First of all it is quite unlikely that the primary dealer community would hold that bill for 70 days. They own the bill at a yield of 0.185 basis points.</p>
<p>For the sake of simplicity let us assume that they are able to finance them at percent. They make 18.5 basis point per day on their holding.</p>
<p>That would not be an efficient use of scarce capital in an era when balance sheet space is scarce.</p>
<p>In an environment in which the FOMC has promised cheap financing for an extended period, balance sheet would be allocated to buying the 2 year note (or some other instrument with a longer maturity) when it sags some place north of 1.00 percent. There is at least a little juice in that trade.</p>
<p>Foreign central banks and money funds buy piles of bills. I would bet my money that the bills were quickly distributed to those investors.</p>
<p>Separately, a dealer is not going to hold a security for 70 days.</p>
<p>Furthermore, in the auction of the bill which matures this week the primary dealers took just $ 24.3 billion so even if your far out assumption is correct, then the amount of leverage employed would drop rather quickly from the fanciful number which you cite.</p>
<p>Primary dealers are traders and as a general rule it is anathema to hold a liquid for the 70 days which the post suggests.</p>
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